Thursday, December 27, 2007

The LGBT (lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, transgender) community is one that demands acceptance of themselves, their lifestyle, and their beliefs regardless of what others may believe. From the 1960s up until today they have struggled to be accepted. They have utilized every possible tool to gain this acceptance. Anywhere from picketing the APA (American Psychiatric Association) to having political activists and lobbyist pushing this acceptance upon the people of America by attaching legal acceptance to different bills going through the House and the Senate. For a community who so demands acceptance is it not strange, is it not interesting, that they are so UNACCEPTING of those who identify themselves as EX-GAY!


As my ministry, Bridging The Gaps Ministries, is forming and I am praying for discernment that I understand the direction God would have me go with it I have started to notice what feels like hatred and intolerance from the gay community. In trying to understand what this hatred and intolerance is I came across many gay based websites, books, and so forth which are rabid with negativity towards those, like myself, who identify themselves as 'ex-gay'. Though it should be known I personal do not like the term itself. I do not call myself that nor is my ministry an ex-gay ministry. However, because I use to be a lesbian who is no longer a lesbian I have been strapped with that title. I do not have a better or different title for such people, again, such people as myself.


So, how do I identify myself? I no longer identify myself as a lesbian or as a butch. I do not identify myself as ex-gay. I DO identify myself as one who no longer believes homosexuality is innate. I DO identify myself as one who now understands that it, homosexuality, is but another branch on the tree of sin. But, most importantly I am a follower of Christ Jesus who is the Son of the most high God!


So lets get back to the title of this blog. Why does the lesbian / gay community take issue with ex-gays?


I have said it all along and Dr. Spitzer affirms what I have been saying: the main reason there is such a fierce rejection of ex-gays among the LGBT community is for one simple reason. If people are born gay there is no chance you could be ex-gay. The only way people can come out of homosexuality is if it, homosexuality, is not innate. Innate meaning it is something you are born with. And people are coming out of homosexuality and what that is saying is that people are not born homosexual. For twenty years I believed I was born a homosexual. I lived and breathed the life of a butch. I convinced many people that there is nothing wrong with being homosexual. Why was I able to convince them of this? Because I believed it!


That is why there is such rejection of the ex-gay person and ministries. Those who identify themselves as LGBT strongly believe that they are born that way. They so believe it that they are fighting for what they believe should be special rights due to them. They consider themselves just as the African Americans considered themselves as people who were oppressed and who desired and deserved civil rights just like everyone else. IF however people can come out of homosexuality then again, that means it is not innate and that throws the water on the fire they currently have burning towards receiving those special rights.


Click on the video below to hear what Dr. Spitzer has to say on the matter. I will have another blog later on Dr. Spitzer to better help those who do not know why I use him as an affirmation to my belief that you can change, that you are not born gay. Sin has done what it does well and it has made people believe that homosexuality is innate.


So, why this blog again? The reason I want to post this to you is to inform you that the gay community has mounted an all out attack against the "ex-gay" ministries such as Exodus, Homosexuals Anonymous, and Love In Action! When I realized that attack had actually gotten bigger I started to do more research on it.


Basically what my research has shown is that if you claim to have changed your sexual orientation and no longer identify yourself as being homosexual then the gay community will respond in one of the following ways (and of course this is not an all encompassing list):
  • well, you must never have been gay because change is not possible

  • you are lying to yourself

  • you really are still gay and you are going to hurt yourself emotionally if you try to be something you are not

  • you are a myth, there is no such thing as 'ex-gay' (that was a new one for me, I have never been called a myth before)
  • I can not believe you actually allowed yourself to be brainwashed into believing you are not what you are, GAY! ( I have been accused of this twice now)

I was recently in an email conversation with one gentleman who is a gay political activist. Here is what he wrote to me about my saying I was no longer a lesbian, about ex-gay ministries, and about a book I am working on:


Charlene: You are a lesbian and God knows you are - and he celebrates this fact - and hopes that one day, you will too. . . You can't say that you haven't been warned about the disastrous road you are now on. I'll see you when you come out of your closet. By the way, the last thing the world needs is yet another "ex-lesbian" book. There are already tons. I bet you have nothing original to say and you are clearly just wasting your time. Charlene - you can't form an identity on what you supposedly once were - and you can't waste your life trying not to be something. It always ends in tragedy and you are no exception to this rule. Your story is far from unique. Good luck - you are certainly going to need it - considering you have been brainwashed. Just accept yourself and realize God loves you as the natural lesbian that you truly are. It is okay to be you - and the sooner you understand this, the better.

I could not believe how much this all bothered him. Can you tell that it really bothers this gentleman that I am saying I am no longer a lesbian. I find it quite interesting that this gentleman does not even know me and he is trying to read so much into what I am not.

On one side of the fence ex-gays (for lack of a better word) are being told either they are not gay, never were gay so the change did not happen, or they are being told, with concern, that the person is going to emotionally hurt themselves if they try to not be gay any longer.

That is what it is all about. People have been duped into believing that it is okay to act out sexually on their same sex attractions. Sin is a powerful tool of the Evil One folks.

Please know that this blog is not meant to hurt anyone or offend anyone. I only hope it will answer some questions that some may have on the subject matter of the title.

Please know that it is not my aim to change anyone from their homosexual identity. I am not God and therefore it is not in my power to change you. My aim is the great commission of Christ Jesus. I want to tell everyone about the good news of Christ Jesus and how He loved me so much He changed my life into one of such peace!

My testimony is that I had a life changing experience through Jesus. I did not go to any type of counseling to change my homosexuality. For two years I struggled with being a follower of Jesus and my identity as a lesbian butch. How could what I was born with be wrong. Someone must have translated the Bible incorrectly is what I always thought! The church I started to attend in Las Vegas, NV (College Park Baptist Church) accepted me just as I was when I walked through their doors. When I asked about homosexuality they told me they believed it was wrong and that I was sinning by living that life. But they also told me that they still loved me and they never mentioned homosexuality again to me unless I brought it up. They told me about Jesus and His love, they reflected the love of Jesus to me. It was Jesus and His Holy Spirit that convicted me after two years that homosexuality was not what God intended. I, through the power of Jesus, was able to turn away from that sin. I will not lie to you. I still have same sex attractions, but what is different about them now is that I am able to understand what creates the attraction. I no longer act out on them. They do not come a lot just every once in a while. yet, please know that is understandable. I lived for twenty years in that life. Not to equate homosexuality with quitting smoking or drinking but just ask someone, myself included, how when they have quit one or both of these vices, or any vice for that matter, there are times when you do want to light one up or have a nice cold one. Just thinking about it makes me want a smoke and a beer. That is how it is with anything you turn away from, it will be there because you lived it and experienced it.

I will close with this statement.

I understand, because I have been there, why the subject matter of ex-gays disturbs the homosexuality community. However, I say to the homosexuality community that as they say ex-gay ministries are harming people so are homosexuals harming their own people. If a person wants to not be gay anymore, be accepting of them just as you demand acceptance so you must give it. Support them as best you can even if you disagree with them. Enough harm has occurred on both sides of the fence folks. We need to all quit harming those on the same side of the fence as ourselves. And I say this to both Homosexuals and Christians. Christians are just as harmful to ex-gays as gays are harmful to them. Ex-gays get it from both sides. Christians, for the most part, want nothing to do with them and many Christians, I know many of them, don't believe change is possible either.

I am no longer a lesbian, YES, change is possible, through the love and strength of Jesus!


Please feel free to post your comments. This video below is the one I mentioned earlier of Dr. Spitzer's conversation.

Charlene <><

video

68 comments:

Mike Airhart said...

I applaud your effort to live a new life without unwanted sexual activities.

However, your post contains numerous factual errors.

"The LGBT (lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, transgender) community is one that demands acceptance of themselves, their lifestyle, and their beliefs regardless of what others may believe."

That is the nature of being an American: All Americans disagree with one another regarding various cultural, religious and political beliefs, but we respect each other's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

"From the 1960s up until today they have struggled to be accepted."

False. There has been a struggle for acceptance since the 1800s, and there has been a visible gay rights movement in the United States since the 1940s.

"Anywhere from picketing the APA (American Psychiatric Association)"

Who picketed the APA, and when? Links and sources, please. Please also acknowledge that ex-gays picketed the APA a few years ago.

"to having political activists and lobbyist pushing this acceptance upon the people of America by attaching legal acceptance to different bills going through the House and the Senate."

This is no different than Jewish, women, and ethnic minority activists seeking their own rights under the constitution. Religion is a choice, even more so than one's predominant state of sexual attraction.

"that they are so UNACCEPTING of those who identify themselves as EX-GAY!"

I know of no gay people who are unaccepting of ex-gays. I do know that many gay people oppose exgay political activists who exaggerate the ease of change in sexual orientation and use alleged change as a political tool to deny gay Americans their equal rights under the Constitution.

If you know of specific gay people who are unaccepting of all ex-gays, I encourage you to name the specific gay individuals who feel that way, rather than generalizing to all gay people.

I would be pleased to discuss these issues further -- I'm just not sure whether you want dissenting viewpoints on your blog.

In any case, best wishes to you in your journey of religious renewal and chastity.

Semiwhatsit said...

Mike said, "I know of no gay people who are unaccepting of ex-gays."

Let me first say that I am a good friend of Charlene's and that I completely support her in all she does to bring Christ to a group that many times shuns Him.

I have been paying very close attention to Charlene's interviews on Bay Area television and radio, and in two newspapers. I especially remember her radio interview on Shake. While listening to the show and looking at pages on their web site, I noticed many different instances of unacceptance among the hosts and authors. I understand that all people in the LBGT community experience unacceptance, most of the time more often than "ex-gays" do, but to say you "know of no gay people who are unaccepting of ex-gays" tells me that you are not noticing when those in the LBGT community are doing the same thing they become angry with when they experience it.

Please understand I am not trying to cause anger with my comments. My hope is that we can continue this intelligent without emotion. Thank you for all of your comments. You clearly gave them a lot of thought and I applaud you for that.

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Mike Airhart said . . .

" This is no different than Jewish, women, and ethnic minority activists seeking their own rights under the constitution. Religion is a choice, even more so than one's predominant state of sexual attraction."

This comment above of Mike's is in reference to what I wrote about the political activists pushing through the different bills.

Happy New Year Mike!

Yes,I agree with you that religion is a choice. Mike are you saying you believe that like religion, acting out on same sex attractions is a choice. That is my belief. The same sex attractions I do not believe are a choice as they come from so many different uncontrolable factors however the actual acting out on them is a choice.

If you say they are a choice, and I am not sure that is what you are saying, but, if that is what you are saying then the politcal activists I am speaking of are pushing a choice, not something one is born with.

I will come back as time allows in order to answer more of your thoughts Mike. Thanks for your interaction as I welcome it.

Mike Airhart said...

Semi,

There is a difference between "unacceptance" and disagreement. You have provided no examples of "unacceptance" and so your meaning is very unclear.

I am aware of disagreement when people who continue to be predominantly same-sex-attracted claim to no longer be gay or lesbian when in fact "gay" and "lesbian" -- to most people -- simply mean same-sex attracted.

I am also aware of disagreement when ex-gays claim that all gay or lesbian people were badly parented or sexually abused.

And I am aware of disagreement when ex-gays claim that they must pass laws or encourage discrimination against gay and lesbian people in order to advance their own cause.

I encourage you to state much more clearly what you mean by "unacceptance."

Sincerely,
Mike

Mike Airhart said...

Just a couple more quick observations about generalization:

1. Even if there are some gay idiots (pardon my French) who feel it's their duty to tell ex-gays how to live their personal lives, there are plenty of gay/lesbian folks who have said they don't care what ex-gays do with their own lives, they just don't want ex-gays to impose their religious, sexual, and political choices upon everyone. So I believe that accurate and fair generalizations about what gay people as a group believe about ex-gays are not possible because there simply is no consensus.

2. Semi also refers to "a group that many times shuns Him." Umm, as a group gay/lesbian people do not shun God or Jesus. Many gay individuals shun God, but at least as many faithfully pray to God, go to church, etc. The strong influence of gay Christians in the Episcopal church, United Church of Christ, and MCC is pretty obvious; it cannot be said accurately that they shun God or Jesus. I do not believe fair and accurate generalizations are possible about gay attitudes toward faith -- a claim that the group often shuns God is an inaccurate description of those of us who have never shunned God or Jesus.

Finally, I erred in my original comment. According to the out-of-print book "The Myth of the Modern Homosexual" By Rictor Norton, gay history has been traced back to the 1600s. This book invalidates much of modern leftist "queer theory."

Sorry I've been so verbose today -- I must have too much time on my hands. :-)

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Hello Semi Whats It:

I appreciate your thoughts, affirmation, and comments. And I agree with you though perhaps we do need to define "unacceptance".

Mike, you ask for an example and so I will give you one. I am sure you are familiar with gay political activist Wayne Bessen? And a website Truth Wins Out? The quoting I included in my blog is his to me. With that example I believe we can define unaccepting.

Here I am a person, who with God's strength, has come out of what I call (and the Bible) a sinful way of living. Yet, Wayne is telling me I have not changed, I am still a lesbian. For me, that is unacceptance. He is not disagreeing with me he is downright; perhaps we should use the word "unbelieving". What ever you want to call it, he, and many others are unaccepting in their belief that change is possible. In order to express this unbelief they say things such as listed in this blog, that I am still a lesbian or I never one was.

If you go to my website and listen to the Shake radio interview, Shake is a LGBT radio station in San Francisco, you will hear their "resident lesbian" (that is what they call her on the show), I believe her name is Michelle, say that I probably was just boarder-line gay. This is what I mean by unacceptance. A failure by a group of people to recognize that change is actually possible. I can see how you would call it "disagreement" yet to me that does not fit the bill.

I just looked up "disagree" in The Oxford American College Dictionary and one of its definitions is to 'disapprove of'. In the same dictionary I looked up "acceptance" and one of the definitions is agreement with or belief in an idea, opinion, or explanation.

Basically what that shows me is that both words are closely related. I still choose to use "unaccepted" being it is more personal.

Gianne said...

Well put testimony. Let me say that as a Christian, it brings me great hope to know someone who was thoroughly apart of a relatively isoalted (one-way in) community who came out of it for Christ. The angels rejoice for you Charlene. Best of luck in your ministry. I will circulate this blog and pray for you.

Shallow Mind said...

Alright ! First off... I am Lesbian. Now that this is out of the way let me tell you what I don't like about what I just read.

I don't care if you are straight, gay or whatever and I really don't care if being gay is innate or not.

The term "ex-gay" sounds really stupid if you ask me. I had boyfriends before and I definitely don't label myself as an ex-hetero but anyways that's not really my point.

What I sincerely despise about what I just read is the fact that you are preaching hateful thoughts about homosexuality and you have fallen for the homophobic and misogynistic cult/religion of Christianity.

If it is possible to turn "ungay" fine, live a happy straight life, I have no problems with that. But leave God out of it ! And don't tell people that it's a sin and that they will be tortured for eternity just because they like to have sex and fall in love with their own gender. This is psychological terrorism, and I cannot tolerate that ! Shame on you !

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Dear Shallow Mind;

Please know there is no hate intended in my blog. Regretfully hate is perceived most times when a follower of Jesus Christ, who no longer identifies themselves as 'gay', makes a comment on or about or in reference to the 'gay' community.

My main objective is to bridge the gaps between the Christian and 'gay' community. To take away this perception of hate. Evidently I am not doing a good job yet, and please note I said "yet".

As for my blog, it has many purposes, none of which are to generate or to be perceived as 'hateful'!

Perhaps that can be another blog? Why Does The Lesbian / Gay Community Perceive Most Christians With "Hate"?

Again, please know there is no hate towards those who identify themselves as LGBT meant in this blog.

I will come back later to discuss more on this later. Time does not truly allow the time I need with this comment of yours. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and your reactions.

Shallow Mind said...

Here is why I perceive hatred in the Christian ideology.

The simple fact that this religion is referring to us as "abominations" (well the OT calls us that I'm not sure about The new testament) but the fact that it is considered a Sin to be gay implies that we are going to hell if we don't change.

Hell means : to be tortured for eternity.

If God wants to torture me for eternity because I Love someone who loves me back, then I don't want to have anything to do with Him. And if that is your God, then the Devil as really fooled you !

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Hello Again Shallow Mind;

Have you personally read the entire Bible, from cover to cover? I say this only to help me understand if you are repeating what others have said or have you yourself read the Bible to see for yourself the message of the Bible.

If indeed you have read it I am curious what version you read.

I will back later. Thanks again for your conversation.

Take care now.
Charlene <><

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Thanks so much Gianne for your affirmation. I appreciate your circulating it for me. Take care now. I thank you as well for the prayers. I ask for discernment on a next step.

Shallow Mind said...

Read the entire Bible : no I have not.

But I have been to church and I had a very Catholic mother. Me being gay was the worst thing that could happen to her. And she told me, over and over again, that being gay was a sin, and that I HAD to repent ! The priest confirmed it.

- If you don't repent then you have sinned, therefor hell is what awaits you !

Yourself admit that you miss the touch of a Woman.

If you had the urge to kill someone then I would understand why you don't want to live like that anymore.

But you deny your urges to love : because this love is "evil".

If love is evil, then evil I am ! And I do not want to be "saved" !

I don't understand you ! Coming out of the closet is usually a very big deal and a very hard thing to do for people and now that you did come out, you shove yourself right back in.

You are a perfect example on how religion can really screw somebody up !

Shallow Mind said...

And you will probably serve the Atheist cause more than you think !

You will now be an example that I will use against religion and faith based ideology, on how these unfounded ideas mess up humanity's minds and denies us our right to be what we are : Humans.

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Hey again Shallow Mind;

It was not religion that convicted me of my sins it was God. It is the Holy Spirit through the power of Jesus that conviction comes Shallow Mind.

Could you tell me what your first name is? It seems odd to be calling you "Shallow Mind"?

If you go to my website, www.BridgingTheGapsMinistries.org you can watch the DVD, read some of my story.

Did you read all of my blog? Did you see what I had to say about how great that church was I attended? Not all church folk are as hateful as many perceive them to be.

Know that it was not the church that changed me with their religion. It was Jesus Christ who changed me. He changed me with His Love!

Before knowing Him as my Savior I was never at peace. I was always out there drinking, looking for love, and so on . . . No matter where I looked Shallow Mind I never could quite fill the empty place inside of me. Something was always missing.

Then I had a life changing experience. No longer was I looking for love. My party friends as well as my family and co-workers noticed the difference right away.

That difference was the peace one experiences and continues to experience when they know Jesus as their personal Savior.

I know it may sound hard to believe Shallow Mind.I always thought it was hog wash when friends of mine would tell me they were no longer gay. When they told me they 'found Jesus'! I thought they were a bit touched in the head. Though the whole time I did believe in God. I did not believe that God would say that my being gay was wrong, because He made me that way.

I so wish that you would just talk one on one with Jesus. What can it hurt? Talk with Him right now. I am not saying you have to do anything you do not want to. I imagine you probally talk with God don't you?

Talk with God, Talk with Jesus. Just ask Him to show you what I am talking about. If nothing happens you are none for the wear. But, if you do come to know Him closer you will understand the peace and the filling that I am speaking of.

It is the enlightenment to end all enlightenment.

Shallow Mind said...

My first name is Alice.

Yes I have read your entire blog. And I have seen your interviews etc...

It doesn't change a single thing. Even if the people you knew at your church didn't actually force you to turn ungay. It is still a sin and it is still punishable by hellfire.

Why talk to Jesus ?

Why not talk to Thor or Odin or Buddha or Santa-Clause for that matter ?

Why aren't they worthy of worshiping ?

Listen, I am usually a skeptic, and real skeptics ask to be convinced.

But on this matter, I am not a skeptic, you'll will not convince me that Christianity have any kind of truth except some vague historical non-fairytalish facts that as nothing to do with the "superheroness" of Jesus.

Yes Jesus was a good guy, as was Martin Luther King jr., I respect them both but I don't worship any of them.

And I know that I will not convince you that you are a completely delusional and brainwashed gay woman that is in absolute denial.

But I feel sad for you !

Even if you think I got it all wrong.

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Hey Alice;

Thanks for sharing your name with me.

It is not up to me to try to convince you about anything. Only God can convict you.

What is up to me is to tell you how much God loves you. To tell you about the good news of Jesus Christ.

I believe that God loves me so much and He loves you that much as well. He, God, sacrificed His Son, Jesus, on the cross. Jesus' death on the cross covers your sins, my sins, the sins of everyone. God wants you to believe in Him, in His Son, Jesus as well.

That is my part, along with loving you as Jesus would. I need to reflect His love to you. I believe I have done that to the best of my ability.

Now, it is up to you. I hope and pray you will talk to God. What can you lose? But you can gain eternity.

Alice, I appreciate your concern. Thank you.

Alice, If what I have said sounds like I have been "brainwashed" then so be it though please know that I have not been "brainwashed' however I must admit I have been HEART-WASHED by God's Love!

Goodnight for now.

real said...

Dear Charlene

Firstly, let me introduce myself. I am not American, but my girlfriend is, and I consider myself to be saved by Jesus. I grew up in a very conservative and deeply Calvinistic society, and it took me almost 40 years to make peace with myself, with who God created me as, and with who I truly am as a result of that.

I have read the Bible from cover to cover, and have won many Bible knowledge contests. Knowing whats in the Bible, and understanding what it really means, is however two different things. I tried to live the straight life for almost 40 years, but was never really happy. One day, i read Jesus words, where he said (my loose quote) ' The most important law of all is this: "Love God above everything else, and love your neighbour as you LOVE YOURSELF."

WOW, what amazing words...i realised for the first time what those words really mean, and that i will never be able to love God, if I do not love myself as he created me. I accepted who I was, and came out to myself and my parents as gay. This was the end of my struggle... this brought me closer to Jesus, and made me realise that it will be a sin if i do not live my life as He intended me to life it... it also broaght happiness to my life, and a wonderful woman to share that life with...

As an active member of the LBGT community (administrator of a large lesbian website), I can honesty say that I have never seen the LBGT community taking issue with ex-gays... it seems to be the other way around, and several testimonies confirm that ex-gays are used by political powermongers to aid their objectives. Here is one, as example: http://www.alternet.org/story/71460/

I can just hope that you, indeed, love yourself the way God has made you, and that you are not sinning by acting against his will. I must agree with shallow mind - IF it is possible to turn "ungay" fine, live a happy straight life, I have no problems with that. If it is not possible, and if you cannot change back because you have been all over the media and television, my deepest sympathy to you, and know, I will pray for you...

Lastly, a question, maybe a rhetorical one: In my country, human rights include the freedom of choice with regard to religion, sexual orientation, and a range of other 'basic human rights'... Why, in the 'most civilised country in the world', the USA, are those basic human rights not afforded to everyone?

All the best to you and your seach for happiness... may you find freedom

Yours in Christ

~realwoman

BlueBandana said...

If there is a backlash against "ex-gays," perhaps it is a backlash against the political movement behind it all. Using people such as yourself, as examples, of how us sinners can change and "fit in" with the Christians of the world. We can change, Charlene, to fit in with them. You don't find that to be sickening? Obviously not. The window of acceptance is very narrow. If you don't walk and talk like they do, you're not one of them.

You said that you still have homosexual feelings, you just choose not to act on them. In this sense, you are denying yourself. Denying who you are. Is that what God wants? I'm sorry, but you may talk the talk and walk the walk, but if you still have those feelings, it really seems like it's all for show.

What does that teach others? Honestly? That who they are is wrong and against God. The way to Jesus is to deny yourself and your true feelings. If you do not do this, than God will not accept you. Though he is loving and forgiving, and somewhere in there, I assume, he's also understanding. It sure doesn't seem that way. Not if he would turn good people away simply because they love someone of the same sex.

You may wear colored eye contact lenses to disguise your true eye color, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us have to. You talk about acceptance...well how about accepting people as they are, for who they are. Where can that acceptance be found? Don't say with God, because you're an example of how that's not true.

Shallow Mind said...

As I said :

The Devil as really fooled you !

I hope you will see that soon enough an will not waist your life in relationships that is not made for you. (earthly human relationships that is !)

I know Christian gay people who still love Jesus and don't deny who they are, I hope you could be one of them.

And what I really don't like here, is that you are a tool that will help to feed the denial of other lesbians that could of lived an happy out-of-the-closet life and now will not because of you.

Again, and with all due respect :

Shame on you !

Mike Airhart said...

Random thoughts on a Saturday night:

1. Shallow Mind is behaving kinda troll, at least in my opinion. Not worth fussing over. If he/she stops shouting and generalizing, maybe then...

2. Responding to another commenter: Gays aren't isolated, except in localities where inhospitable others choose to isolate and ostracize same-sex-attracted persons. However, I've noticed self-isolation among ex-gays and closeted gays.

More later, dinner calls...

Shallow Mind said...

I may be a troll but I didn't force Miss Hios to post my generalizing and trollish comments on her blog. She did that all by herself.

And yes I am shouting. I don't like what I'm reading here... My purpose is not to convince anyone that faith is a delusional mental state, which it is. I am very well aware that I can't do that.

I'm impulsive and I react instantly to what I am reading.

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Alice, aka Shallow Mind, I want this to be an open blog and so I am posting all comments whether I disagree with them or not. I want to know your thoughts.

You do not like what you reading here in the blog or in the comments? Or you do not like what you are reading in all of it?

Shallow Mind said...

I'm sorry if you think that I am to blunt but that's who I am.

And I don't like reading things in your blogs like :

People have been duped into believing that it is okay to act out sexually on their same sex attractions. Sin is a powerful tool of the Evil One folks.

This contributes to the feeling of guilt and shame that is way to present among our community.

Again, live an happy straight life, it's ok. If indeed, you can really be happy with a man.

But as long as you don't leave God out of it. I'll be angry.

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Don't you see Alice (shallow mind) that this is what I am speaking of in that gays take issue with ex-gays?

Because I, having come out of homosexuality, am speaking up and saying that I believe people have been duped into thinking it is okay to act out on their same sex attractions, I am accused of being used by the religious right, I am accused of needing to be ashamed of myself, I am accused of contributing to causing shame and guilt to the gay community, I am accused of being involved with the politics of the whomever.

What I have found even more interesting is that I am accused of HATE!

Where did I ever mention hate? The last thing I am trying to generate is Hate!

Why do you suppose hate is seen in my blog? Perhaps because gays perceive hate in anyone who identifies themselves as an ex-gay? Though you may not see it as hate, hate is a harsh word.

Another interesting item I have noted in reading many of the comments to this blog is that the commenter's are saying they know of no one who is showing hate towards ex-gays, yet, if you reread the comments you see hate, at least that is what I feel coming off some of the statements.

I can feel the energy coming off of the page of some who have commented.

Perhaps some would call this hate something else? I do not know!

Perhaps, again, it is all about perceptions. Perceptions that we each have of each other?

I do not know.

What I do know is that misperceptions can cause a lot of dislike / hatred.

Just what it is not needed out there.

Shallow Mind said...

Don't you see Alice (shallow mind) that this is what I am speaking of in that gays take issue with ex-gays?

I don't have any issues with ex-gays. I have issues with religion. If you don't like the world "religion", then insert any faith based ideas that you want instead (God, The Love of Christ, The Devil, etc...)

Making people believe that sex as anything to do with a God that will be mad if you don't sleep with who He wants is the lowest thing that religion as ever pulled off.

And I just can't shut up about it. Being tolerant about such a discourse is leaving the door open to some more fanatical people such as Fred Phelps and his lovely family to pollute the minds of other people.

You do the same thing that they do, but with a toned down, sweet and "respectful" voice instead. But you serve the same fundamental ideas : Being gay is wrong and sinful (whatever that means) ! Which will, whether you want it or not, bring upon us the hatred of some people.

Shallow Mind said...

I can feel the energy coming off of the page of some who have commented.

You're talking about my page. Say it, don't turn around the pot with me.

Yes I hate religion for what it did to me and I have no respect what so ever for it, I don't hide that.

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

"Yes I hate religion for what it did to me . . ." Alice (Shallow Mind) this is I believe the second time you have mentioned that the Church has hurt you? Do you mind if I get a bit more personal and ask how the Church hurt you? I am assuming that by "hating religion" you are meaning the Church in general?

Shallow Mind said...

I meant religion in general.

I thought I told you about my mother but I realize that I didn't.

I lost my mother because of religion. Not that she died or anything, she just refuses to talk to me or see me. Haven't seen her in 4 years now. Last thing she told me was : You make me have to choose between you or God, and of course it's going to be God. How great is that !

God should have added an 11th commandment : Thou shall honor your children.

But of course you will tell me that what she did was not religious. This is another problem with religion, it is soooo elastic that anyone can interpret it like they want to.

And these kinds of story happens to me all the time. I didn't say it in this story, but it is because this friend of mine was muslim that she thinks that I'm the devil now.

BlueBandana said...

Dear Charlene,

It's almost comical to me, how you fit into the misconceptions many Christians seem to have about homosexuality. Almost as if you're whole story was created just for them. Many Christians see the "sin" of homosexuality as this image or idea that all we are about is sex. Most would probably find it hard to believe that there are actual feelings involved, including love, in a gay relationship. Much easier to see a sin when you turn us into perverts and nothing more than perverts. Isn't it, Charlene?

No where in your blog does it mention love or having serious feelings for another woman. Why not? You went twenty years and never once felt such things? That might ruin the image though. Might make homosexuality look like something more than just momentary impulses, right? That wouldn't fit into that false image people have. Wouldn't help reinforce their twisted views. You even go as far as to relate what you go through now as being similar to withdrawal symptoms after someone quits smoking or drinking. You're absolutely not feeding an image. You're not telling them what they want to hear?

You talk about how you are "strapped" with this "ex-gay" title even though you don't care for it. Awwww, Charlene. You were "infected" with "the gay" and even though you've turned your life around and removed such sin, your past still comes back to haunt you. When your whole message is about who you're not, rather than who you are, I guess saying you're an "ex-gay" really fits your own agenda. Oh wait, you don't call yourself that...that's right. You do make it abundantly clear that you are one of "such people." Wouldn't be fitting to call yourself "straight," would it? Even though you no longer give in to those momentary urges of homosexuality, it is important to make sure you hang on to that gay title.

For someone who isn't being used by the religious right, you certainly fit the criteria. Maybe you just stumbled across it by accident, or maybe not. For someone who spent 20 years as a lesbian, you don't seem to have an honest grasp of what it means to be homosexual. Your view is really no different than the heterosexual Christians right. Ironic? Possibly.

The biggest problem we have is a lack of understanding. Homosexuality is new to a lot of people and it is something they may not understand. That may cause feelings of fear because it is new and unknown to them. The problem we have is that there are people, such as yourself, who wish to take advantage of peoples faith in God and their fear of the unknown. This is the reason we have such misconceptions today about what homosexuality really is. Sometimes in order to sell a product, you must first create a need for it.

You could be the poster child for homosexuality in the eyes of Christians. You're just helping make sure that the image of homosexuality remains one that people can point a finger at and look down upon. You add to that, this bit of inspiration, as you were once a lesbian and now you've turned toward a higher path. Read Gianne's response

The sad part is that your message really can hurt people and effect their lives. I feel bad for anyone who comes to you with an open mind and an honest desire to learn and understand. What they'll get from you is this molded and tweaked story that has definite intent. Like a gift basket full of your propaganda.

That is

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Dear Blue Bandana;

Am I mistaken that you are implying I am making up the fact that I was a butch and that I lived as one for 20 years?

Do I need my exs to verify that yes, I was a lesbian and one who loved them very much. So much that I wished we could have gotten married.

Are you implying I never was gay?

I just need you to clear that up for me because I do not want to mis-understand you.

Know that I am quite happy to give you my phone number so we can talk live . . . which would be easier than blogging this all to you.

My contact number is not a secret, it can be found on my website which can be found on my profile.

Do you not think this is indeed taking issue with my now being ex-gay?

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Dear Blue Bandana;

If you want to hear a bit more I have four 30 minute programs which were recorded on television here in the Bay Area (Northern California) You can connect to them through my website www.BridgingTheGapsMinistries.org

Perhaps if you watched these four programs, you would see that I am not who you think I am, or who I think you think I am.

Let me know your thoughts. Shallow Mind has gone to see them.

Shallow Mind said...

BlueBandana said :
The problem we have is that there are people, such as yourself, who wish to take advantage of peoples faith in God and their fear of the unknown

I cannot agree more with that. I am not here to convince you that what you do is wrong, you are way to brainwashed for that. Whether you are Gay, ex-gay or never have been gay in the first place, I do not care !

Just know that as long as religious zealots like yourself continues to talk in a condescending way about people who as not yet been brainwash by your belief system, people like me will be your enemy. Whether you like it or not. I will not fake to respect what you are. I truly despise all of what you represent. I am not your friend !

And before you say something stupid like : I don't talk about people in a condescending way ! This is what I'm talking about :
I believe that God instructs us to not judge the lost (those who have not accepted His Son Christ Jesus as their personal Savior)


Saying that I am lost is condescending and insulting. Even if you don't mean to be, you are !

Again : I do not care that you once were gay and now are straight ! It as nothing to do with your sexuality but as every thing to do with your religious beliefs.

Be straight ! Leave God out of it !

Mike Airhart said...

I agree with BlueBandana (gee, what's with these strange pseudonyms...) that the ex-gay story being told to conservative Christians is incomplete -- a half-truth -- without a strong emphasis on such issues as:

1. same-sex relationships are about love, companionship, and fellowship, not just sex, habit, or compulsion.

2. while you define lesbian to mean sexually active, most people (including conservative Christians) define it to mean a woman who is predominantly attracted to women. So when an ex-gay says they are not a lesbian, they contradict their own statement that they are still predominantly attracted to the same gender.

Ex-gays lack credibility in churches, in the media and among the public because they tend to tell only partial truths.

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Mike Airhart said:

"that the ex-gay story being told to conservative Christians is incomplete -- a half-truth"

Mike, I wonder if you have read my different interviews, watched my DVD links which comcast produced,listened to my interview on shake radio, watched my cbs interview?

I ask this because I do believe I spoke truth, fully devulged it, I left nothing hidden. In one of the DVD links on my website I speak of how much I loved one of my girlfriends, so much that we wanted to get married but could not, I speak of how it hurt to not be able to have children, get married . . .

Just writing about it hurts because it brings back the pain that we, my girlfriend and I, Kathy, were not able to openly express, this was in the 80's . . .

When it comes to telling the truth Mike, I tell it like it was, and like it is, some would say that is one of my biggest faults . . . that I am too open . . .

Just the fact that I stated in my blog that I sometimes still have the same sex attractions was frowned upon by some of my friends . . . my response to them was that I would be lying to say I did not still have them occassionally . . .

Mike I do not lie nor do I speak half truths . . . I call it like I see it . . .

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Mike Airhart said: "2. while you define lesbian to mean sexually active"

I did not realize I defined a lesbian in that way.

My definition of a Lesbian is one that most do not even think of . . . It goes back to Sappho and the island of Lesbos . . . hence if you want my true definition of a Lesbian it would be one who comes from that Greek island. Smile!!!

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Mike Airhart said: " Ex-gays lack credibility in churches, in the media and among the public because they tend to tell only partial truths."

Again, I do not lie when I share my testimony of my life.

I can only speak for myself, not for others . . .

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Shallow Mind stated: "Again: I do not care that you once were gay and now are straight!It as nothing to do with your sexuality but has every thing to do with your religious beliefs. Be straight! Leave God out of it!

I must disagree with you Shallow Mind (Alice). Don't you see that it has everything to do with God and He can not be left out of it.

And it has everything to do with sexuality as well. This also answers some thoughts that Mike and Blue Bandana shared . . .

God created woman and man to fit together anatomically. Woman does not fit anatomically with woman and of course neither does man fit with man. That is not how God created them.

Try as I could when I made love to my girlfriend (you wanted truth)I was not able to be a man sexually.

Yes, it is a sexual issue, yes it has to do with God. By woman being with woman sexually and man being together with man sexually it goes against what God intended and hence, Alice here is your definition of sin,it is what is against God's intention.

Just as God did not intend for us to kill unborn babies so He did not intend for same sex humans to have sexual relations with the same sex.

It also has to do with God, because it was God's Holy Spirit, not the Church,not religion, that convicted me with a HEARTWASH not a brainwash that it is wrong to act out sexually on my same sex attractions.

I was perfectly happy being a Butch. I was out and I was proud! Others had a problem with me because I was in their face with my gayness, but I had no problem with myself and how I identified myself.

God had a problem with it, and He convicted me that change was needed. There were no religious people tearing me down. It was a God thing.

real said...

real said....."I can just hope that you, indeed, love yourself the way God has made you, and that you are not sinning by acting against his will."

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said... "here is your definition of sin,it is what is against God's intention..."

I find it extremely insightful that you have not chosen to respond to my post, made on 3 January already. I was looking forward to a debate with someone who know the Bible...

waiting patiently,

~realwoman

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Hello Real Woman;

Not to make excuses but please know I am not ignoring your post . . I am in a full time seminary student working several jobs, this J-term I am the TA for a Biblical Hebrew class, and I am on staff at a church so my time is regretfully thinfully divided . . .

I promise I will reply to your posting sooner with some thoughts . . .

AS a matter of fact I am looking forward to our discussion given what you say some of your back ground is . . .

Even if we disagree during our conversations please allow me to say upfront that I am thankful Jesus saved you!

Got to run as I have 22 more chapters to read in a text-book for a class that starts this Friday morning . . .

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

I have been quite open to all comments however as moderator I will not allow the F word on my blog! I am sorry to see you go. I will not mention any names. Please remember that my God is also your God!

Mike Airhart said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Mike Airhart said...

I agree with you, Charlene, that God did not intend for us to kill unborn babies.

Unfortunately, several carefully conducted statistical studies have found that abstinence-only education is fueling an increase in unplanned pregnancies and abortions. That movement, and the pro-choice movement, are both fueling and capitalizing upon, abortion.

The pro-life and pro-choice movements are both committing countless sins against people and society -- sins of physical harm as well as sins of half-truth and deception.

The culture war is a sin.

I believe we must move beyond this sin, and beyond a narrow focus solely upon abortion and homosexuality, if truly moral society and wellbeing is to be restored.

Mike Airhart said...

Hi, Charlene,

You said,

"Mike, I wonder if you have read my different interviews, watched my DVD links which comcast produced, listened to my interview on shake radio, watched my cbs interview?"

Thanks for reminding me, I will do that.

However, when you speak only your own truth and not the whole truth, isn't that similar to the liberals' practice of moral relativism? Relativists (both liberal and conservative) tell only the part of the truth that they relate to.

God's truth is much bigger than that. God's truth includes all truths, not just ex-gays.

I know your ministry doesn't offer false cures, but some ex-gay ministries do, and that's an important part of God's whole truth. You were helped by an ex-gay ministry, but others were harmed, and that's a part of God's truth.

Well-intentioned liberals and conservatives both convey untruth whenever they overgeneralize or tell incomplete truths about members of some opposing side -- and whenever they gloss over their own sins.

That's what I think makes war (both cultural and military) so sinful in the eyes of God -- large masses of innocent civilians are wrongly labeled, accused and harmed on the basis of truths that apply only to very small groups of people.

Shallow Mind said...

I'm sorry for getting angry earlier, earing things like you said really makes me go insane but you are right, I got out of bounds, please accept my apologies.

About your pole.

Do You Believe Homosexuality Is Innate?

You should add an answer :

Yes
No
Not sure
I don't care <-------

Shallow Mind said...

Just as God did not intend for us to kill unborn babies so He did not intend for same sex humans to have sexual relations with the same sex.

The same bogus logic could apply to anything.

Did God intend for us to kill life ? Like flies or bacterias ? Why aren't antibiotics and insecticides sinful ?

Why aren't clothing sinful ? God made us without clothes.

Is smoking a sin to ? Our lungs are not made for smoke.

Is eating a donut even if you are not hungry sinful ? The purpose of eating is to refuel ourselves.

While we are at it, is chewing gum a sin to ? Our mouth and teeth are made to eat, not just to chew.

---

On a more serious note :

Is the pleasure that some women have while breastfeeding her child sinful as well ?

BlueBandana said...

Charlene,

"Do you not think this is indeed taking issue with my now being ex-gay?"

Isn't that your intent? I do not believe by any means, that the issue has anything to do with you having been a lesbian and no longer being a lesbian. The issue; which is one I would suggest you purposely create, exist because of the term "ex-gay," coupled with your beliefs on homosexuality. You do insist upon using the term, even if you don't care for it.

"I do not identify myself as ex-gay. I DO identify myself as one who no longer believes homosexuality is innate."

First off, you do identify as an "ex-gay." Look at the first quote as an example. Secondly, by identifying as an "ex-gay" you establish your beliefs that homosexuality is innate without even having to come out and say it. This is where the issue is generated. That is not purposeful, Charlene?

Gay is a sexual identity. "One who no longer believes homosexuality is innate," is NOT a sexual identity, yet you seem to use it in place of. There's no reason behind that?

You can have your views on homosexuality. You can have your views on God and religion. We live in a free country where you can express those views openly. However; the way in which you express your views is much like a slap in the face to homosexuals. I do not understand why, after having lived as a homosexual for twenty years, you can not see that.

I would question your lesbian past because of your current views and because you seem to lack any compassion for those who walk in the same shoes you once did.

"Because I, having come out of homosexuality, am speaking up and saying that I believe people have been duped into thinking it is okay to act out on their same sex attractions..."

Do you really believe that homosexuality is accepted in our society? You would tell me that the acceptance is greater than the resistance? Maybe for you coming out as a lesbian was a piece of cake, but for the majority, it is an emotional struggle. One that does not come easy. The misleading, to me, would come from the resistance and the belief that homosexuality is wrong. The anti-gay movement is not behind closed doors. It's very much apart of our society and it's very much in plan view. Would you like me to provide examples of this? Read your blog.

You talk about acceptance, and yet you're openly saying that homosexuality is wrong. Where are you being accepting? All I see from you is lack of acceptance. The kind that you are accusing the LGBT and homosexuals of. Do you not see that? Do you not see where it would be hard for a homosexual to accept your past when you so blatantly denounce homosexuality? You were once one of us, were you not? Have you forgotten what it's like?

I wonder when you changed your mind. As with most acts of sin, we know full well that what we're doing is wrong. You so clearly see the sin now, but why not before? Why did it take church involvement to realize where you were "wrong?" Why was it something you were born with before and is now a choice?

You are close minded and more importantly, close minded about something that was you for twenty years. I, nor anyone, have the right to tell you how to live your life. Why make it a point to tell others that our lives are wrong? Why not just talk about your love for Jesus and God and show compassion for all. Why clearly point out a group of people and focus on what you see as their faults? Where is your blog about the sin of lust or the sin of cheating on ones spouse?

I do not hate you. I do not hate who you are. I do not have a problem with the way you live your life until you include myself into it. You, Charlene, would feel the same and may have already experienced it, when someone so openly denounces your religion. Something you obviously believe very much in. There are two sides to everything. Please do not ignore that.

I have not yet looked at your programs, but I will do so.

Jackson said...

Wow, Charlene, you stand alone it seems amongst all who are trying to persuade you that you are still gay. I admire and applaud your effort. It gives me hope to know that I can come out of this life of lonliness and find the peace you speak of . . . I will check out your web-site. Thank-you for standing up and taking a stand to give hope to those of us who do not want this life we are leading. You are truly a God send. Why is it that gays are trying to keep those of us who want to leave the life from leaving it? Thanks! For taking a stand and standing strong!

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Hello Mike;

Just a slight correction on your comment where you said :

" You were helped by an ex-gay ministry, "

There were no ex-gay ministries involved in my leaving homosexuality. It was a "God thing" is the best as I can describe it. It was God and me, one on one for a two year period.

I am so sorry that people have been hurt. I am thankful for my being graced with a good experience though it was not the easiest thing I have ever gone through.

If you look at the bottom of this blog this can click on a YouTube clip I just added. It is a small portion of an hour DVD one can view on my website . . . it tells a bit about my thoughts and struggles.

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Thanks for your comments Jackson.
Contact me at the number on my website if you need to talk. It is not easy to leave the life, but, with a lot of help from God, you can do it. Again, call if you need to talk.

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Thanks Shallow Mind;

Apology acceppted. It takes a lot to say you went out of bounds. I really appreciate that.

I really am trying only to discuss the title of the blog and trying to let people see that not all Christians should be perceived as hateful!

Rev Charlene E. Hios II said...

Hello Blue Bandana;

I agree and disagree with you on many things in your last post which I just posted . . .I see many things in many posts which I want to discuss. Just not sure where to start. I appreciate your challenging thoughts.

Hello Mike Airhart; I appreciate your thoughts as well . . . I am not ignoring any of you . . .just not enough time in the day to do what I want to do which is think through all you all have said.

Shallow Mind said...

Jackson : If being gay is something that you are not comfortable with, which is understandable (being gay is very hard in our world), And if you really don't want to lead this life (that can be absolutely great by the way) do whatever you want but please !
Don't let people like Charlene fool you in making you believe that God will punish you for being gay. It is NOT true. Even animals have homosexual relationships, it is not something that goes against God will.

Shallow Mind said...

I really am trying only to discuss the title of the blog and trying to let people see that not all Christians should be perceived as hateful!

You are absolutely right, not every Christians should be perceive as hateful.

But caveman (or cavewomen in this case) Christians who persist, despite all evidence (i.e. homosexuality being common in all of the mammal kingdom) to say, in 2008, that homosexuality is the work of the Devil, should be considered, not only as hateful, but more importantly, as dangerous.

I know that you are not, fundamentally, a hate monger. You are a nice and genuine compassionate Lady (you could be so much more than what you are right now). But you have been fooled and I think it is to late to bring you back to sanity.

We (gay people), do not need people like you to say that it is a Sin to be gay, being gay is hard as it is, so spare us your religious BS !

Scaring the crap out of people by telling them that being gay is the work of the Devil, which is what you are doing, will fuel the hatred that people like me have towards you. And of course, hatred can only lead to REALLY bad things, and I don't want something bad to happen to you, even though I hate all of what you represent. (please don't see this as a threat, it's really not, I condone violence in every ways).

But please change your attitude !

I do not know if me being gay is a choice or a fact of life. I do not know if it would be possible for me to be sexually and emotionally attacked to men. But the thing is that I am happy the way I am.

Now...

If somebody is not happy being gay and if it is possible to turn straight (which I sincerely doubt since you, yourself admitted that you still had fantasies about the deliciousness of same sex relationships) please change your discourse and leave God out of it and find a "real cure".

God doesn't care with whom you have sex with (it's just sex for crying out loud.. it's sooooo insignificant in defining who a person is). God wants you to love, period.

Debbie Haughland Chan said...

Wow! Thank you for what you have written, Charlene. I wish you were writing more on your blogs. I would like to hear more of what you have to say.

May God bless you and your ministry.

Rev Charlene E. Hios said...

Thanks for your encouragement Debbie. I thought I recognized your name. How are your book sales going?

Phelim McIntyre said...

Last weekend I was involved in a conference with speakers about the possibility of changing from homosexual to heterosexual. Those of us involved, and the venue, were attacked via email and received threats of violence both to ourselves and the building. We have been accused, even when we presented the scientific evidence, of being unscientific. So much for there not being a pro-gay anti-exgay lobby. As for the political pressure - people need to read Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth, and After the Ball to see what has happened.

Anonymous said...

Dear Rev Charlene;

As I read the different comments that are here I wonder why so many are from those who are pro-gay and so few are from those who call themselves Christians. Perhaps I should use a little "c" on christian as few seem brave enough to say what is the truth and that is that homosexuality is not how someone was born, homosexuality is not a trend, homosexuality is not an identity, Homosexuality is not what God intended, it is a "sin"!!!

That is the truth of the matter. Rev Charlene I have heard you speak and we have corresponded on FB and I know your heart is to help the person who is gay not to hurt them. I can tell from your writings and from your speakings that you want to reach out to the gay with the love of Jesus! I know that is what you encourage the church to do!
I saw on FB that some said they are afraid to post on here, and here I am doing the post by using the easier way out by not identifying myself . . . I do it not because I am afraid but because I do not want to set up a google identity . . .

Be strong and be of good courage! You speak the truth regardless of what others say . . .

Rev when will you do that blog you want to do on a truth that no one could argue . . . about the "parts not fitting"?

Mike Airhart said...

"Criticism" is not the same as "attack," and the ex-gay movement's dismissal of any constructive criticism as an "attack" -- as well as the movement's refusal to document and report threats of violence to the proper authorities -- are key reasons why the movement has lost credibility in mainstream society.

Both NARTH and Focus on the Family are, in fact, anti-science -- both have been found guilty of research fraud. See respectmyresearch.org for more information.

Jeffrey Satinover, author of "Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth," is not a respected therapist. His blame-games against parents and relatives have been repeatedly discredited by mainstream research. Satinover epitomizes the anti-family animus of the reparative-therapy movement, and the movement's unhealthy efforts to politicize health and science.

It saddens me to see such anti-family, anti-health, and anti-science attitudes accepted as "truth" at ex-gay events.

People who struggle with sexual attraction do need answers, and abstinence may be one solution for some. But they aren't receiving constructive solutions from ex-gays.

Instead, strugglers are hearing ideology and paranoia reflected on this page, and they are observing the ex-gay movement's antigay violence in places such as Jamaica, Latvia, and Uganda, and they are watching as Exodus seeks to silence anti-violence and anti-bullying programs in schools.

Anonymous said...

Charlene who is this guy Mike?

I have gone and read other things he has written in other areas, not this blog, about you and boy does he have you wrong!

Mike, Charlene was a butch and now she is not though it took quite a long time for God to get through to her!

Mike you said earlier that Charlene went through an exodus type of ex-gay ministry to come out of being a butch and that is not true and nowhere that I could find does she say she was helped through exodus.

Charlene's family attended our church in Las Vegas, NV, College Park Baptist Church. No one had to tell us she was gay though her Mother, Norma told us before she came here and we had been praying for her to leave the homosexual lifestyle.

I watched her struggle as God became more and more evident in her life. As we told her about God and Jesus, you could see she wanted that relationship with them.

We watched as she was convicted by the Holy Spirit. Mike we never condemned her, we loved her just as Jesus would, and commands us to love her.

Charlene's love grew for God and she was always trying to understand why God had her be gay yet it was against his word to be gay.

Then one day Mike she was a different person. She finally had her eyes fully open to the lies the homosexual leaders and activists had put into her head and the lies that are still being put into the heads of people like yourself.

I wish Charlene would post some of her pictures from when she was gay.

Mike do not believe the propaganda you are spreading. You are loved by God regardless of your sin. God loves me and even though I have a personal relationship with God now I still am in this fleshly body and so I still do sin however I am not a slave to the sin, the sin has not blinded me into believing it is okay to do whatever the sin is because it is really not a sin.

Mike I do not know about all the ex-gay ministries out there. I believe whereever money is involved there is corruption, there is corruption one would imagine on both sides of the fence.

All I know is I saw God change Charlene from a tough butch type girl into a soft and gentle woman who has a heart for those who are still captive to the lies she once was captive to. Mike, Charlene has the key to being set free and she is not about money. Last I heard she works at least three jobs in order to be able to do her ministry.

I once went to the gay pride parade with her in San Francisco. She needed an accountability person so no one would spread any lies about her being there. As we watched the dykes on bikes start the pride parade, Charlene started to cry. I asked her why she was crying and she later was able to tell me that she could feel their feeling of freedom yet they did not know it was a false freedom, she said they are walking around with balls and chains on their bodies yet they think they are free, Mike she only wants the Truth to be revealed to those who will receive it.

In one of your posts on another site, I found it by googling your name and her name together, I saw you mention that, I think you said, you thought Charlene was still gay, those may not be your exact words but you said something like that.

You could not be any more wrong. Charlene will be honest with you if you ask her if she still has attractions to women. She will tell you she still has the attractions yet she will also expand into an explanation especially if she sees concern in your face.

Charlene tells it something like this: She lived that life for close to 20 years, of course she is still going to have moments of attraction. She shares how she had been a tobacco smoker for more than 20 years and God healed her of that as well but she still, on occassion, has the desire for a smoke.

When I asked Charlene about her attraction to women and did it bother her that she still had them she told me there was no reason to be bothered. Anytime she has an attraction she takes it to God and asks what is it that is causing the attraction. Usually the reply is she is attracted to how the woman carries themselves or she likes a certain mannerism, how the hair may be cut, the woman reminds her of her mom or some other woman whom she is close to and so forth. Once the attraction is explained the whole sexual part goes out the window.

Something in her life or a combination of somethings, she is still trying to figure this part out, happened that caused the attractions to become sexual.

Charlene, Mike, this is getting too long and I need to get myself to my hair appointment.

Charlene, I love you so much. How thankful I am for you and that I was blessed to see you change and see you grow and am so glad we have stayed friends all these years.

Mike, what can I say, except to ease up on Charlene as she is truly very special, but also know that I imagine you are truly on her heart and in her prayers as you will now be in mine.

Donna

Debbie Haughland Chan said...

Thanks for sharing that, Donna. I've heard Charlene's version of the story but it's good to hear it from another angle.

Rev Charlene E. Hios said...

Michael can you define "exgay movement" for me?

Rev Charlene E. Hios said...

I am trying to figure out if it is better to make each subject within this subject be a separate post or should it all go under the orginal post? There are just so many comments I do not want anyone discouraged about trying to figure out where they are on the page. Any recommendations as to what settings work best?

Rev Charlene E. Hios said...

Phelim you said you guys were harrassed because of your meeting last week.

I trust you kept the emails. Would you be willing to forward them to me? or would you be willing to post them here?

Did you call the police on the building being threatened?

If you did contact the police could you let Michael know the city and building so he can follow up for us as I am sure he will do that. Michael?

Rev Charlene E. Hios said...

Michael any website that is posted on Wayne's website is going to have a gay bent. This is in reference to your reference of
www.respectmyresearch.org .

I believe the gay activists are still bullying just as they did to the APA.

Regretfully the gay activists have much more money behind them then do people like myself.

While I am working three jobs I know at least two activists that get paid to sit in their new york offices all day and research anything they can use against ex-gays and those who speak out against anything dealing with homosexual "special" rights.

Rev Charlene E. Hios said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Terry Kneeburg said...

Praise God for how Jesus has transformed your life! It really doesn't matter what I think, what you think, or what anyone else thinks. The important question is, what does God say about it?

If one reads through the entire Bible (not just picking and choosing the parts they like) one thing is very clear: having homosexual relations is wrong in God's eyes. So is lying. So is stealing. So is having sex with someone who is not your spouse. Based on what the Bible says, one is not born homosexual, gay, lesbian, etc. no more than one is born an adulterer, liar, thief, etc. However, we are all born with a sin nature, which means we have the capacity to engage in behavior that God says is wrong. Having the capacity to engage in wrong behavior is not the same as actually engaging in the behavior.

The problem is when WE CHOOSE to do what God says is wrong--that is what sin is. In God's eyes sin is sin---there are not degrees. God loves us and wants us to experience His forgiveness through faith in Jesus Christ. Even after we make Jesus the forgiver and leader of our lives we will still sometimes have the desire to do something that God says is wrong. That's part of being a human being.

May God bless you and your ministry!

Rev Charlene E. Hios said...

You got it Terry! Homosexuality is but one branch on the Tree of Sin!